Author Topic: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD  (Read 194 times)

daxq

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Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« on: May 09, 2018, 04:24:10 PM »
I use a Platinum Tools EZ Rj45 Pro-HD crimper. The other day while on site, I kept getting a mis-wire for the brown wire when tested with PockE. I thought the a termination was bad (knowing an electrician had done the original run who was unfamiliar with CAT6 cabling), and I re-terminated both ends. Still bad mis-wire brown. Figured the break must be in the run somewhere ran a length test in hopes it would point to an end, tried to eliminate 10' and re-terminate an end - still mis-wire brown. Ran a new cable, mis-wire brown. Could not believe that all those re-terminations where bad, tested the PockE with a small jumper cable I had in the PockE case - worked fine. Turns out - any cable I touch, working or new with the EZ RJ45 shows a mis-wire on brown or sometimes  WOrange or sometimes both. I have had the Crimper many years, and figure it must have gotten out of whack with all the tosses into the tool box - pitched it - bought a new one - same exact thing with a brand new EZ-RJ45.

So I started testing:

If I take a cable crimmped by EZ-RJ45 - flagged miswire Brown/Worange with PockE and put it in use, it actually works fine.
Same cable and I test it with a SC8108 (what I bought PockE to replace) - passes.
If I take a known working cable - test it with PockE it passes, and then I re-crimp and end into the EZ-RJ45 it reads as mis-wrie on PockE - Passes on SC8108.

Is there something I need to adjust - this is very frustrating as - once you start to lose faith in your tester - it is no longer a tester but a massive waste of time, $$ and sanity.

Any assistance anyone can give is greatly appreciated. I have also updated the FirmWare on the PockE - HW version 6, FirmWare version 29, App Version 2.8a - I get the same results, if I touch the cable with the new EZ RJ45 = miswire Brown.

JP

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2018, 05:30:50 PM »
Plug the wiremap terminator directly into your Pockethernet with a known good patch cord - is the test right?  Then it's working.

Use another cable and the test is wrong - then theirs your answer, the crimp or cable is bad.

Ensure you are terminating the same standard (I always use 568B) on BOTH ends, see "Strait wiring" at http://jpelectron.com/sample/Electronics/CAT5-%20Pinout.gif

Check for metal dust or a broken pin in your RJ45 crimp, in the jack in the terminator, in the jack on Pockethernet.


daxq

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2018, 05:53:23 PM »
While I appreciate your reply, I don't think its that simple and I suspect you did not read the entire post.

A cable that PockE is declaring mis-wired or bad because the end was touched by the EZRJ45 crimper works on the LAN and test fine with other testers. 

Have always use the same standard, been doing so for 20 years.

No broken pins, neither in the old or the new crimp.

JP

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2018, 10:14:46 PM »
I assure you I did read your entire post...

If all you have to do is crimp (or re-crimp) with the EZ-RJ45, and then the error happens, then that is changing the resistance of the cable.

Pockethernet, unlike the SC8108, is doing a resistance check of every pair, and even between pairs to detect miswire/shorts.

On Pockethernet, with it's wiremap terminator connected, the brown pair must be 220K of resistance, more or less and it will report "short" or "open"

The SC8108 (my best guess) is only doing a simple continuity check.  I have not opened one of their terminators to see how it actually works, but, and this is not to be taken personally, it looks like a very cheap HomeDepot / China-special kind of continuity tester.

Be sure you aren't trying to use the SC8108's terminator with Pockethernet, or the Pockethernet terminator with the SC8108 - I'm sure they won't be the same and could cause damage to one or the other tester.

It's entirely possible your crimper is applying too much force, or not enough, and the brown pair, seeing as it is on the end, the pins are punching through the wire, or not making enough contact with the wire.  High resolution pictures of the crimped connector could help determine this.

Personally, any crimper that does not provide equal force across all 8 pins (from the top down) is not worth it IMHO.
For example:
https://i.imgur.com/ABmMXrw.png

The crimper on the left is not great, cause it doesn't force all the pins in with the same force.

Also, there are different RJ45 ends for solid vs. stranded wire, the only one I've found that works reliably on both is this one, which explicitly states it for both kinds of cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008F533EC

My point is, if Pockethernet can test and report accurately a factory made cable, then there's nothing wrong with it.

If it tests your home made cable and there's something wrong with it - then it IS your cable (or crimps) that are bad.

Mike1233

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daxq

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2018, 03:09:53 AM »
Brilliant JP, thank for the very detailed and logical reply. I will look at and return the new EZrj45 crimper, and replace the old one.

Have a great day!

Thanks for the info and reply Mike - I think JP is correct that the SC8108 is a cheap continuity tester, it does work well for that and the cables made are operational - but I do believe what he is say and looking more closely at the cables confirms it - the EZ Rj45 HP Pro is crushing the brown and sometimes the GW or OW (1st and 8th pins). They have a new version EXO which may crimp more evenly, but I don't know if i'm gonna experiment.

Thanks again both. 

JP

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2018, 06:27:18 AM »
Mike, thanks for the pics of the SC8108 terminator.  I can't trace the entire circuit just from the pictures, but I can for sure tell it's different than the Pockethernet terminator.

The SC8108 one seems to be using diodes, capacitors, and a few resistors, in addition to having a beeper on the board.  Also the first two pictures are clearly different than the last two, namely the second one has an extra diode, and some bridged solder traces on the back - perhaps a different/upgraded model?  Or perhaps that is a way to ID different terminators?

The Pockethernet terminator is only a resistor network - no diodes.

The SC8108 terminator reminds me of (looks somewhat similar to) the older Fluke LinkRunner terminators, where they included ID 1 with the tester, and you had the option to buy ID's 2 through 6 for an additional ridiculous cost.

The only other thing I can add is that different testers may put "higher" voltages on the line (3v or 9v are at least ones I've seen) - and those may be destructive to another companies terminator.

As a general safety/precaution:  Always use the terminator that came with the tester.  Do NOT put any terminator on any "live" line that could carry POTS (48v and up to 90v when ringing) or POE (proprietary/passive 5v, 9v, 12v, 24v etc. or the true 802.3af POE standard of anywhere from 44v to 57v) or a line that has a tone generator (about 9v) on the other end of it.

Mike1233

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2018, 07:39:10 PM »
I have also terminator nr 3. I have used the terminators for finding out wich cable was going to wich room. When you have 4 of them it is less walking the stairs up and down.
I have about 12 wall sockets with network cables.
When using this tester it shows the terminator number.

All this text is only for extra info. I like the PE much more.  :)

daxq

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2018, 03:41:12 PM »
This is just getting more puzzling for me. I returned the new EZrj45 crimper and got a Klein - also ordered Klein ends (suspecting that the actual ends may be the cause. And as it turns out I cannot make a passing end with these tools. Every crimp I make is flagged as miswired by the PE. Mostly on the two outer ends. Both the Klein, the new Platinum ezrj45 and the old crimper using Platinum jacks, or klein.

I can see that the crimps are pushing the copper plates through the wires (just barely but they do penetrate) on the ends. The older testers declares these to be fine, and they operate fine, but are labeled as miswired by the PE.

Is it possible that the cables created by the PassThrough type of crimping are not correct?

snowmanjax

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2018, 10:42:27 PM »
daxq,

     Have you ever hooked up your PE terminator to a live piece of equipment (be it switch, computer, etc)? When I did that a month or so ago, it messed up my PE terminator. I validated this information with my friend's PE terminator, and it worked fine on my PE device. His PE tested miswire (always pin 8, sometimes pin 1 as well) with my PE terminator. Then I decided to test the resistances of my PE terminator, and indeed they were incorrect.

     JP makes awesome replacement terminators (http://jpelectron.com/hardware/). My girl surprised me for my birthday with two of them, and they stay in my PE bag. However, if you do this, and the replacements work, don't pitch the PE terminator, as the loopback side still works for the BER test. From what I can tell (anyone correct me if I'm wrong), the loopback side has it's own set of resistances. Mine still works for the BER testing, so I haven't put a meter to it yet.

     Hopefully, all that went wrong (if at all) with your PE is the terminator, and you can scoop up a set from JP's site. If you grab a set, and it's still miswiring, either your PE went on the fritz, or the PE just doesn't like pass-through crimp connectors. I'm going to grab an old cable this weekend, and file down the ends to expose the bare conductors. Then I'll test, and will post the results here.

     Happy cabling adventures!


snowman

daxq

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2018, 08:54:58 PM »
I don't recall doing so, is there any documentation on testing the dongle? I can get a multi-meter and a breakout ( https://goo.gl/images/71kCBN ) and make sure that whats supposed to be there is there.

snowmanjax

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2018, 01:25:25 PM »
daxq,

     There isn't any official documentation on testing the terminator that I could find. However, here is the diagram with the resistances on it:
http://jpelectron.com/sample/Electronics/CAT5-%20Pockethernet%20Wiremap%20Terminator.gif

     While I don't know if the breakout boxes would induce any more (or any less) resistance, it might be OK, as I've wiremap tested 250ft cables before, and the results were good. You could also try cutting a bad end of a cable, strip the individual wires, and test the resistances that way. That should save you from only getting the multimeter, and not having to buy the breakout box.

     Do you have any "normal" ends with crimpers you could try as well? That might help isolate the issue to either the pass-through type connectors, or the PE setup itself.

     Hope you find the issue! Keep us updated. :)


snowman

Zoltan

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2018, 11:31:22 PM »
Dear daxq,

this indeed sounds strange and we certainly would like to investigate why this is happening.

Just to make sure we're on the same page: can you post a screenshot of the results with the failing ends?

One other thing to check is the contact pins inside the PE and the terminator connector. Could you have a look inside if they are all at the same resting position and not bent or otherwise seem to be damaged?

Cheers,
Zoltan

daxq

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2018, 01:58:31 AM »
Well I just made my first passable cable testing with the PE and a pass through crimper. Using Ubiquiti ToughCable Cat5e and Ubiquiti ToughCable Ends. I crimped the crimper (Klein) one click at a time until the excess cable just began to cut (2 clicks and I could wiggle the excess off) = Pass even shield without solder just wrapped. 3 clicks on one end = pass, 4 clicks (which releases the crimper) = fail - brown open - all others and shield pass. Kind of a pain in the behind, but I am expecting the pass through crimpers just need to be babied - would be nice if you could adjust the depth of the crimp or something. Gonna cut the 4 clicks end and add a new end with 3 clicks and test again. 3 clicks = Pass with a manual release. Get a pass test and BER with no errors.

daxq

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Re: Creating Cables EZ RJ45 Pro-HD
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2018, 02:42:38 AM »
Stranded Cat6 Klien Passthrough CAT6 ends, 3 clicks = Pass
Solid Cat5 Klein Passthrough CAT6 [just testing], 3 clicks = Pass
Solid Cat6 heavy duty direct bury shield Klein Passthrough Cat6, 3 clicks = Pass

Think I may be on to something

I got blisters on me fingers!